EPISODE 24: Reimagining HR in Divisive Times
Trina Sunday: 2025 has literally just begun and I’ve just unpacked three episodes where I’ve looked at HR trends for 2025. But we’re only a month in and there’s some heavy hearts and minds around the place. from political shifts to cultural clashes, the rollback of key workplace initiatives like DEI. Ah, there is a lot for HR leaders to unpack right now. So today we’re diving into what’s making organisations and HR teams uncomfortable right now and what HR leaders should and could be doing to support their people. Welcome to Reimagining HR with Trina Sunday, the rule breaking podcast where we challenge our thinking and our current people practises. This podcast is for time poor HR teams and business leaders who are feeling the burn, lacking laughs and not feeling the love.
I’m Trina, your host and I’m here to cut through the bs, explore different ways of thinking and create high impact HR functions because happier, healthier organisations are better for our people and our, bottom line. So if you are keen to flip traditional HR on its head, hit the follow or subscribe button so you’re the first to know when new episodes drop. I’m, here to help and also to shake things up. So let’s get started. I’ve just spent the last three episodes unpacking HR trends for 2025 on this podcast. January 2025 is now behind us and it’s clear that HR teams across the globe are navigating some pretty incredibly turbulent waters and people are tired. We’ve only just started February. All we are one month into the year and HR peeps are overwhelmed. So why the heavy hearts and minds? Well, from political shifts to cultural clashes and the rollback of key workplace initiatives like DEI, there is so much for HR leaders to, unpack. But it’s not all doom and gloom. These challenges also present opportunities, right, for us to rethink how we build workplace cultures that are inclusive and resilient and supportive.
So today I’m diving into what’s making organisations and HR teams really uncomfortable right now. And what HR leaders should and could be doing to support their people, including themselves. But while we’re exploring, let’s be real. This stuff is complex and many would argue it’s not in HR’s remit at all. But if leadership aren’t on it and we’re seeing divisiveness rip apart our organisation, we have to make a call. Are we in or are we out? And if we’re in, we’ve got to do some stuff. We’ve got to try some things, meet some people, challenge our assumptions and get curious. Because the only thing I know for sure, around the globe we are interconnected beyond belief. So we can’t sit in our little corners of the world, if the world was flat and pretend like current affairs aren’t going to impact us, because they will, somehow or another. So what’s shaking the world in February 2025? I guess let’s look at the backdrop. There’s no shortage of global and societal events that are impacting workplaces right now, so let’s look at some of the big ones first. the recent election of Donald Trump as the US president. His return to the White House has reignited political polarisation. And not just in the us, but globally, we’re seeing heightened tensions around topics like immigration policy, international relations and climate action. And for workplaces, this is creating friction as political conversations are spilling over into the office. Employees are bringing strong feelings to work. And without some proper kind of guidelines or leadership, those discussions can then easily become conflicts. On immigration, there’s a specific example I want to highlight from today, and that’s There was a LinkedIn post by HR firebreather Kayla Moncao. I don’t know if you follow her on LinkedIn, but she’s incredible. Kayla, who’s Mexican, shared a deeply personal story about her Indian partner and his family. And, despite being US citizens, her partner’s family continues to feel anxious about their security and they’re fearing scenarios where immigration authorities like ICE could try and deport them. And the post resonated with many, but it also drew a wave of hateful comments, kind of attacking her partner. And so after only a day she posted yesterday, she’s now chosen to delete the post. And this kind of backlash forces us to question where our humanity’s gone and how we as organisations can ensure our people feel safe and supported in environments where such sentiments exist. I’ve got Latino friends in the US that do not feel safe. They’re US citizens, US born and bred. But because of a family history, because of their ethnicity and because of who the sitting president is, they don’t feel safe. They’re not going to work as usual. They’re not going about their activities as usual because they’re living in a space of anxiety. And then there’s the rollback of DEI diversity, equity and inclusion initiatives. And across the US and even globally, organisations are pulling back on DEI programmes due to political pressure mostly from the US, but budget cuts or fear of legal challenges. And then we’ve got a whole wave of organisations and companies just jumping on that bandwagon because it suits the patriarchy, to be honest, and it suits those in power at the top. And if you watch the U.S. president’s inauguration, you would have seen what that stage looks like, the powerful, the rich, the pale male that was surrounding the president. But this is leaving many employees, particularly those from underrepresented groups, feeling abandoned and unsupported. And while I could tell you to imagine being part of a workforce where your identity or lived experience is suddenly seen as too political to discuss, if that’s not your lived experience, it’s pretty hard to relate to that. But that’s the reality for many people right now. However, there are some companies and, Salesforce have come out trying to demonstrate their commitment to DEI and expanding their employee resource groups. So they’re rebadging some of how they’re approaching DEI and they’re just integrating it, straight out into business strategies, those principles. And there’s others that are coming out and pledging their recommitment to it. And I think it will become a very big brand differential. But Australian organisations offer, mirror trends in the us, which raises concerns about the future of DEI efforts in Australia.
As DEI related backlash grows, companies are rebranding their programmes to be more gender neutral and inclusive to avoid potential criticism. But whatever the language, our commitment to fairness should be paramount and core in everything we do. And at the core of all of that as well, is safety. And I know, and it’s kind of like, do I go here, Do I go here? But one of the big conversations and emotive conversations that I’ve been having this week, and it’s coming very much out of a very specific US context, is a conversation around transgender. Now, I’m someone that leans into conversations with my LGBTQIA community and colleagues, friends that are represented by that community, because I’m a CIS woman, heterosexual relationship, I can’t even begin to imagine what it’s like to have to navigate that daily. And a specific context around when we talk about trans women and we talk about the prison system and what’s happening in the US and some of the political and, the policy decisions being made. At the end of the day, you have people whose safety is going to be significantly compromised. So no matter where you sit in a conversation and comfort about discussions around gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, identity, generally, wherever you sit in that spectrum of comfort, at the end of the day and from a humanity perspective, Damn straight. I’m not going to sit on the side of a conversation where it’s a conversation that’s going to lead to someone being unsafe and harmed. And I feel like we’ve lost sight of that in our workplaces as well. So if we look at some of our DEI initiatives, it’s not just about everybody getting ahead. Some of it is about keeping people safe. And that safety is also creating the safety to share thoughts, diversity of thought, diversity of ideas, which is what makes really successful companies. And so I’ve had some conversations this week that have sparked some very powerful emotional body language tone debate, right? And I think a lot of it is the intention of how you go into those chats that’s the most critical and we’ll kind of look at that. But there’s other big stuff happening globally, right? There’s major M factors like climate anxiety. Like just in the past month we’ve seen record breaking floods in parts of Asia, heat waves in Europe that have disrupted operations and communities phenomenally out of control, fires across Los Angeles. In the States, employees are feeling the pressure to push for sustainable business practises while also grappling with their own personal fears about the planet’s future. And depending on what generation you are in, that is magnified.
So if you are looking at some of our emerging and our generations that are entering the workforce now, this climate anxiety is real. They’re like, my kids are not going to be able to see and my grandkids are not going to be able to see the world in the same way that we do now because we’re not taking action. And we know, and I’ve talked before and in the last three part series on disruption, being here to stay and trends for 2025 there is the rise of AI, but even that stepped up, right? So tools like ChatGPT and other automation technologies are reshaping industries at a really rapid pace. But it’s not just Western tech driving these changes, it’s not just the OpenAI that we’ve been seeing around ChatGPT. And take for example Deepseek, that’s a, Chinese AI company that’s focused on maximising software driven resource optimization. So lots of the other platforms have relied on a lot of hardware for some of these things. But in looking at it, Deepseek seems to have embraced just open source methods. So they are pooling collective expertise and they are really fostering collaborative innovation and it’s like they’ve caught the world by surprise. So this approach not only mitigates some of the resource constraints that people are having in accessing AI, but it’s going to set them apart from some of the more insular competitors that are out there that are just looking quite narrowly within the platforms that they’ve built. For HR teams, this raises important questions like how do we prepare for a world where AI is driving unprecedented efficiencies and how do we address the potential workforce disruptions that come with it? Like it’s a minefield. Right. But the emergence of Deep Seek, just when everyone was getting comfortable with ChatGPT, throw deep seek into the mix. And the fact that we have a Chinese based company and some of, the things that sit around that in terms of security and data security for some people, again, I’m seeing debates open up or people that don’t know what Deep SEQ is yet, in which case, there’s an opportunity to lean into that as well. And we can’t forget, of course, the lingering effects of COVID 19. But burnout remains a significant issue and especially for our HR community. And the debates around flexible work and hybrid models are far from over. Right. Like some companies we know are, scaling back remote work options and mandating a return to the office. And that’s creating a tension with employees who’ve come to value that flexibility. And we know in Australia that one in three employees are ready to quit over a lack of workplace flexibility. One in three, that’s huge. But at the same time, employers are lucky at the moment because it’s not an employee market, it’s an employer market right now. So, so there are more people in the market than there are jobs available. And so not everyone’s leaving. They might just hang around for a while and do jack. Right. But what’s really emerging as well for hr, which is interesting, is that there’s many workers now who believe that they deserve a premi an allowance, a bonus, whatever, for giving up the flexibility and autonomy of remote work due to commuting costs, potential childcare expenses, lack of personal time or loss of personal time, which many consider are all factors that contribute to the financial burden of returning to the office full time. So we’re seeing new hires trying to negotiate that now, or we’re seeing existing employees try and negotiate to be compensated for that. You want me back in the office? No problem. But we want to be paid and compensated for the disadvantage that’s going to create for us financially. Some very interesting conversations, but again, even conversations about flexible work have become downright divisive. By definition, being divisive means that it’s, something that tends to cause disagreement or hostility between people. Disagreement’s one thing, can be healthy, right? But hostility, Whoa, hold up. That’s not good. All my culture peeps out there, that’s not good. And, if we look at the role of HR in divisive times, now that we’ve set the stage, let’s talk about how HR can step up and address the challenges. Because it’s not easy and there is a lot of debate even within our HR community around where our role stops and where it starts. And so I’m really interested to know your thoughts. But one of the areas is around addressing political and social divisiveness. You’ve got to name it to tame it, people. You’ve got to name it to tame it. So one of the most uncomfortable yet necessary things HR needs to do right now is to set boundaries for political and social discussions in the workplace. I’m not talking about writing a policy, but, I recently had a client that was working globally, so they worked for a multinational and they’d experienced a significant divide during the US midterms last year, and employees were openly debating politics during meetings. And it started to erode trust within teams. The whole Republican versus Democrat debate and what side of policy people were on and, and the solution, as is most of the time, is around clear communication. But I worked with my client around how she was going to influence the leadership team to try and create some guidelines around that, like how to give managers skills to redirect political conversations if they started to become divisive. It didn’t mean silencing people, though. So instead it was about trying to foster an environment where employees can engage really respectfully and focus on the shared agenda rather than their differences. So one of the things that I know in an Australian context, for example, like HR can also create opportunities for really healthy dialogue. And I know for myself, there were panels that we put together, really, where I was trying to channel curiosity, courage, compassion, all the C words when we had Australia’s voice referend for example. But it was the same thing with some clients that were working, through the MeToo movement or Black Lives Matter, organisations that hosted, like, facilitated discussions that allowed employees to explore differences of opinion in a safe space. But the intention and the focus was around education and connection. So people were turning up with an open mind to learn more about each other’s position, not to be brainwashed, not necessarily even to walk out of the room agreeing, but to try and reduce misunderstandings and encourage empathy. And it worked really well with some of my clients that we did some of that. And there’s been so much learning around indigenous culture, for example, that even though for some there is significant disappointment, heartache and grieving around the decision for the Voice, there’s been some really increased unity and a commitment to indigenous culture that’s put reconciliation on the agenda in, a way that would never have happened before. And so what was disruption and what was divisiveness then became a common goal for unity. And so I think the way we approach it is something that’s really core to focus on. We also need to look at recommitting to DEI. Right. But the language has just become, oh, my goodness. So polarising. Eye rolling, all the rolling, like the rollback of DEI initiatives is such a huge blow to workplace inclusion efforts. And in Australia, we’ve got more legislative instruments that kind of put boundaries around this in terms of, bias and nepotism and harassment, not doing it, not supporting it, obviously, but also where we are in terms of gender equity, the gender pay gap. there are some things that, ah, are requirements for our organisations and our companies, so we haven’t rolled things back. But HR teams have an opportunity to stand firm here. Like, even if budgets are tight, there’s still ways to prioritise inclusion. Like, for example, one company I worked with shifted from, like, really costly external DEI consultants, which are always a red flag. If you’re outsourcing something that’s a really key commitment or principle of your business, it kind of, you might outsource some expertise, but not what’s happening across the board. But we need to then empower internal groups that might be able to influence the inclusivity. And those groups have become driving forces for inclusion. organising events, looking at different cross collaboration and conversations that keep DEI alive even without big spending. But they can’t be conversations, right? it’s like Michelle Redfern says, it’s like going from conversation to action. But a lot of what we don’t do really well is leverage storytelling. Like, we’re not sharing stories from employees about how DEI efforts have positively impacted their career or their lives, so those narratives can really inspire leadership to stay committed. And let’s be honest, it’s leaders that are the ones having a commitment crisis here. It’s not necessarily employees across the board. And a lot would follow courageous leadership that was going to stand true to a commitment to have A diverse and equitable, inclusive and fair workplace where people can have that sense of belonging, like everyone deserves that. Right. And many have talked about the likes of companies like Microsoft and Google embedding DEI in their recruitment. Well, not anymore. Right. But companies that are talking to me about, oh, everyone’s rolling back DEI. That doesn’t mean you have to. Even if legislation is not requiring you to do something, you have a choice. It’s called the above and beyond factor. Like whatever the bare minimum is, which is often what legislation is put in place to kind of put a line in the sand, to say, we expect you to at least do this or to abide by this law. Like, this is the minimum expectation that we have of our behaviour in society, workplaces, community. It doesn’t mean you cap your efforts there. That’s where you start. So there’s nothing to stop people from going large when it comes to driving inclusivity in their workplaces. And if you’ve got inclusivity, you’ll probably have diversity and equity, because you can’t have that without the others. But we talk a lot about psychological safety and we can’t talk about resilience without mentioning psychological safety. And I feel like we’re not feeling strong at the moment, like we’re a bit overwhelmed. I was talking about heavy hearts, clouded minds. But employees need to feel safe, to speak up, to share ideas, express concerns without a fear of retaliation. But a lot of the time, everything I’m seeing out there is strategies around manager training and stuff. And, I was talking to a client, God love them, recently, who said that they’d hosted a workshop where they taught their leaders how to listen, actively validate concerns, respond empathetically. And I asked them, well, what’s the result? What changed? They said, oh, our managers have reported stronger team cohesion and less conflict. I’d, call bullshit on that, to be honest. I think that it’s more than training. Training doesn’t shift this stuff. Like, we’ve got years of, unlearning and habits around the things that compromise safety psychologically in a workplace. And some of those are our own biases, which is why winding back DEI has a direct impact on psychological safety. So you can’t have one without the other. And so I’m just at a loss where we think we can separate it from the safety conversation. But if we look at the other things that we can do and try and think about, we can talk about preparing for change and try and bring some Prosci or Adkar language into our world. But when it comes to things like AI for example, and job displacement, transparency is key. Like don’t wait for employees to come to you with questions like be proactive, like the Secret Squirrel stuff. Right. That’s where I’ve talked before about how much it erodes trust. But we need to share how AI is being implemented, what it’s going to mean for roles and how our organisations are investing in the upskilling. So it’s not a conversation around, well, this many jobs are going to go because of AI. It’s kind of AI is here to stay. Here’s how we are going to upskill you to be able to use that tool in the job that you have. For us, it might mean that your job looks and feels a bit different because we want to get efficiency through AI, but this is how we’re going to upskill you so you can maximise how to use those tools to get the job done. And there’s one tech company I wasn’t consulting indirectly but I was subcontracting, on a project to them and we worked with them on launching a programme called Future Ready Fridays. And through that programme employees got dedicated time to learn new skills like data analytics and AI integration. And for the HR teams this was like mind blowing. It’s like you’ve got two hours on a Friday, do whatever you need to or want to to be future ready. We had people immersing themselves in tech kind of stuff, experimenting with different tools, nerding out on people analytics and how that’s shifting the game in terms of how we can listen at scale. it was creating excitement about change rather than fear. But we’ve got to give people the time to catch up and we, with competitors to ChatGPT out there like Deepseek, that’s accelerating innovation through open source collaboration. Right. And so organisations can adapt by adopting similar models. So HR teams can explore partnerships with universities, tech hubs or even open source communities to help foster innovation and create new opportunities for employees to contribute to cutting edge projects. Like in my 20 plus year career I have heard at length execs talk about loss of corporate knowledge, knowledge retention, having, especially through our information management functions, different initiatives around knowledge transfer and different things. It’s like, oh my gosh, AI has given us the most phenomenal reason to engage our employees to get all the things they know out of their head into a platform that can then teach new People, new stuff. Or when we go to road test and experiment with a strategy or a project or something, when we have Jan in the corner that says, we tried that before and it didn’t work. Well, Jan, let’s see why it didn’t work and get the learning machine to tell us what happened, why didn’t it work? And use the computer to help give suggestions on what we could do differently to maybe make it more successful. Like, how cool would that be? But get the tools to work for us. Future Ready Fridays, get on board. But the other thing is around prioritising mental health. And I just have part of my reason for recording this episode. And I’ve put this on socials for people that follow, reimagine HR on Instagram or LinkedIn or Facebook. But there are a lot of people in the HR community that are coming to me with really heavy, heavy hearts, heavy minds, clouded minds. Like, shit. Just feels intense. And again, it’s only February and mental health has to be the cornerstone of workplace wellbeing, right? Especially now. But it’s that whole, we’ve got to take care of ourselves before we can take care of others. And we keep falling back to employee assistance programmes. Sure, you can start there because it can give something. But beyond that, consider offering proactively mental health days. The mindfulness training manager led conversations about stress. Not the dude from Safety or the HR team swanning in and talking about wellbeing, storytelling, real people, colleagues that have been through some stuff come out the other side. What are some tools they learned, reducing the stigma around mental health? There is nothing more refreshing when someone’s like, well, I met with my psychologist the other day and they were talking to me and you watch people stop and go, are you seeing a psychologist? And when you see a leader go, yeah, I’ve got a personal trainer too. Got them for my physical fitness psychologist for my mental fitness. Like, I want to look after my health really holistically. And you have people go, oh, cool, you know. And at one company I have worked with, leaders started sharing their own mental health journey during team meetings. And the level of vulnerability broke down that stigma, right? And it encouraged employees to seek support when they needed it. And then they made sure that they had really proactive resources, both on the Internet, so people could access things without asking. But still, at the same time, it was building connection across teams and fostering connection and stability is everything. When we have divisiveness in our organisation, in our community, in Society, generally, like in divisive times, connection is your greatest asset. Employees need to feel like they’re part of something bigger than themselves. one way to do this is by anchoring it to shared values. But we all know that lots of those are fake and on the wall and we’re not living them. But if sustainability and inclusion or innovation even, are a part of your organisation’s DNA, you’ve got to keep these values front and centre, like, share stories of how the company’s living those values, whether that’s through community projects, sustainability initiatives or support for underrepresented, groups. Bring your DEI alive. Make sure it’s still alive through the work that you’re doing with the community, even if it’s not what you’re doing in your core business for your customers, but only if it’s real.
In Australia especially, employees sense bullshit from a mile away, and you won’t get anywhere if you’re trying to foster connection and stability. Don’t lie to people. It’s not a good start. So we need to invest in team building, but not like the olden days, we’ve got to get to the core issues that teams are facing. So whether it’s virtual or in person, these moments of connection can rebuild trust and reduce the friction that divisiveness can often bring. But divisiveness on issues can create disagreement and even hostility in teams. But we need to understand where the tipping point is and what we need to do about it. And there’s quite a few things that contribute, right? Like, how do you know when this healthy debate around Trump or the immigration policy or what’s happening with climate change, how do you know when that’s about to go from, okay, we’re having a bit of a debate here to something a bit more nasty, where it’s harder to bounce back from and we’ve got to tune in. And I guess this is one thing where I think managers could be, I don’t want to say trained, but, yeah, educated in terms of things to look for. And one of them would be tone and delivery. like when conversations shift from, being respectful and to then being accusatory or dismissive or aggressive in their tone, then tension’s obviously rising, Right. It’s amazing how many people don’t see it. It’s like, see it before it explodes. Because emotional triggers are real for people. And if people feel personally attacked or invalidated, they’re always going to respond defensively or aggressively, like, that’s their primitive brain. That’s been hijacked from their logic. And we need to understand emotional triggers and emotional coaching. Like, these are tools that I work with HR leaders on, so they can kind of train the trainer, in terms of what they then flow into their leadership development programmes and what they’re building through organisational development. But let’s practise it as HR first, right? Before we tell other people how cool it is, we need to look for the lack of psychological safety. So if we want to know where divisiveness is going to become hostile, where we’re having just a healthy debate and then it becomes a bit toxic. If people don’t feel safe expressing their views without backlash, the discussion will always escalate into hostility. Because if people don’t feel safe, they can’t debate, they’re going to defend. They’re going to be coming from a place of fear and insecurity, which means they’re going to protect themselves, which means they’re going to come on the attack to protect themselves. So we need to understand if there’s a lack of psychological safety. Right. But the other thing that we just don’t tune into. And I was in a meeting yesterday and it was so evident to me in the room that there was this polarisation and group identity stuff going on in the room. And what I mean by that, like, people can see issues as us versus them, and that was happening in the room yesterday and it was two different functions within the organisation. And then you had management and so you had management as the U.S. and, the operational teams is the them. And there was just. But what happens is when we have that polarisation and people saying the us versus them, you can really dehumanise opposing views and it makes hostility more likely. Like, if you feel like you’re in a fight, then you’ve lost before you’ve even walked into the room because you’re predisposed to. To look for the conflict and again, to be coming from a place of fear, which means you can’t be constructive in terms of healthy debate, like, there’s no such thing, because people aren’t ready for it, they’re not safe for it. And then the other thing that flows that, I guess we would need to look for if we want to kind of head divisiveness off at the pass, or the hostility, at least it’s the misinformation and assumptions. I don’t know that I really thought about the word misinformation until Covid, to be honest. And now watching the US elections, first term and now the second term for Trump, and all of the rhetoric in between. Misinformation’s like this massive thing and I don’t know if it feels. And it’s just me, it’s like, has it been there all the time? But I think social media, exacerbates it, right, because erroneous information can spread really quickly. So if we think about it inside our organisations, people jump to conclusions about someone’s intent and can misinterpret their words and then that creates the unnecessary conflict. But it’s really easy to doubt someone’s intent if we don’t trust them. And it’s really easy to misinterpret their words if we don’t have a connection with them, or some kind of underlying relationship. That means we’ve kind of a bit tuned into who they are or where they might be coming from. So it’s like, address the misinformation assumptions through some of that team cohesiveness. Right. And then the other thing that I kind of was reflecting on after some of the chats this week around just the overwhelm and how divided people were describing their workplaces to be, it’s just this unresolved tension. Like, if there is an underlying history of tension, minor disagreements can quickly escalate to become really intense conflicts and we just let stuff go for too long. Like, it’s just festering. It’s just festering. And so we need to deal with that. Like, we can’t leave tensions unresolved. We need to kind of get things out in the open and work on it. So the key to avoiding hostility, yeah, it’s around fostering curiosity, active listening and empathy. But it’s also about approaching conversations with the intent to understand rather than win. What if we all approached conversations seeking to understand rather than win? Imagine that. Before you go, what’s the big takeaway here? As HR leaders, you have a unique opportunity to guide your organisation through turbulent times. It’s a privilege to have that influence in our organisations. And by addressing divisiveness and recommitting to DEI and building psychological safety and fostering connection, you can create a workplace where employees feel more supported and valued and united, even in the face of global uncertainty. But it’s not that easy, right? I’m a realist, I’ve been where you are, and I’m coaching some incredible HR leaders to tackle some of this complexity and divisiveness head on. It’s game on, folks. So if you want to learn more about my virtual coaching programmes, then flick me a DM and we can get some more information to you. Thanks for tuning in and leaning in to this week’s episode as we look to reimagine how we show up for our people, organisations and community.
Reach out to us via our website at reimaginehr.com.au with your HR horror stories or suggestions of people you’d love to hear from or topics you want to explore.
It’s all about people, purpose and impact and we are here for all of it.
Until next time, take care team.
